Will the 21st century be Asian?
Symposium during 39th Cairo International Book Fair on Saturday, 3 February 2007
Speakers:
Anwar Abdel Malek, Professor, Faculty of Art, Cairo University and senior writer with Al Ahram daily
Ali El Hefni, Assistant Foreign Minister for Asian Affairs
Moderated by: Dr. Mustafa El Feki, Chairman of Foreign Relations' Committee at the People's Assembly
Dr. Mostafa El Feki:
We talked yesterday about heading east and how to strengthen our ties with the Asian countries. Today we will try to capitalize on the presence of a brilliant intellectual that is Dr. Anwar Abdel Malek who is well versed in the Asian affairs. We have also with us a prominent diplomat, Ali El Hefni, Assistant Foreign Minister for Asian affairs. We said that there are other powers in the world than the US and Europe.
When I became chairman of the diplomatic institution in 1983, I was asked to teach new diplomats. I used the articles of Dr. Anwar Abdel Malek about heading east. When I was the Egyptian ambassador in Vienna, I met Dr. Anwar Abdel Malek. He speaks English, and French. He is one of the pillars of thought in Egypt. As for Ambassador Ali Al Hefni, he did well when he was our ambassador in Beijing and he will be our ambassador in Mexico soon.
Heading east is one of the significant issues because the world is not confined to the US and Europe. There are other players on the scene. At the end of the symposium we will open the door for discussion to see whether the coming century will be the century of China and India.
The Chinese do not support this statement. They do not brag about their progress. The Indians too are working very quietly. But we do nothing to catch up with them. President Mubarak used to pay regular visits to China. He met Mao Tsi Tung and I accompanied him in more than one visit to China. However, he did not pay similar visits to India because we wanted to have balanced ties with India and Pakistan.
I am quite sure that President Mubarak is keen on visiting India and he stated this on several occasions. He is keen to go to receive Nehru Prize that was granted to him.
Dr. Anwar Abdel Malek:
It is unrealistic to say that there is an Asian century. Asia will not take prominence alone in the new world order; it is the civilization of the east as a whole that would take this position. We can not detach ourselves from the east; we are part of the east.
There are incessant relations between Egypt and the east. In 1947, the Egyptian leftists were divided into several factions. At this time, three translations of a book were issued at the same time. It was amazing that three different translations were issued for the same book. This book was written by Mao Tsi-Tung. The leftists recognized the approaches they should follow through this book.
China was always in the focus of the Egyptian attention since the forties. Our relations with the east were very strong till the era of Gamal Abdel Nasser. After that, those ties started to shrink. Some people believe that I am the person who is interested in propagating for heading east. I am doing so for four decades now.
I am interested in the east because we are a part of it. I collected a group of articles I wrote about our ties with the east in a book entitled: "The Winds of the East". But no review has been issued in Egypt on this book.
What is the right approach for heading for the east? In Egypt, our interest in the east came through admiring the rates of the economic development process in countries like China, Korea and India. It seemed that the development process is the source of attraction; it seemed as if we have just noticed the east for the first time in 50 years.
In 1945, Japan was totally destroyed; Tokyo was totally burnt; 25 years later, Japan has become the second largest economic power in the world. This was a unique phenomenon. But did Japan do this through imitating others? We kept repeating what the American propaganda said about their imitation of the US but this was not true. They rebuilt their country themselves. As I said, everybody started to look at the east because of the economic boom there.
Kishore Mahbubani is of Indian origin and was nominated for the post of the Secretary General of the UN. He wrote about entitled: "CAN Asians think?". This drew our attention that we should be interested in the roots of the Asian way of thinking. There are some characteristics of the Asian way of thinking:
Civilizational continuity: There is a connection between ancient civilizations and modern times. The Confucian principles in China are still alive. Shin Soo wrote a book about the arts of war. It states that to overcome your enemy you have to destroy his mobility and not its military power. Shin Soo was the mentor of Mao Tsi Tung. The Chinese constitution is based on the thoughts of Mao Tsi Tung and it is derived from the thoughts of Shin Soo. Then there is a cultural continuity.
In India, people adhered to the Hindu principles. People in Vietnam and Japan adhered to their traditions too. There is something strange about Japan. There are two levels of thinking there: the apparent and the hidden. Japan is a closed island that you can not enter except through the sea. It is difficult to understand Japanese. You need to stay in Japan for twenty years contemplating things to understand the country and its people.
Attitude towards others: in Egypt we started to talk about recognizing the other although in Egypt we respect all and we believe in peace. What is meant by this is not recognizing the other but subordination and submissiveness. The Asian countries apply the policy of openness with the aim of strengthening the country's capabilities and becoming able to take independent political decisions.
The sense of belonging to the group: the individual feels strong belonging towards the group let it be called the group, or the nation. This spirit is so common in the east but not common in western countries.
In the seventies, the annual leave days in Japanese businesses were 4 days and when I left Japan in 1994 it reached 8 days. Everybody is working on building Japan.
The foreign policy of Japan and countries of the east is peaceful. It is very intelligent not to occupy your enemy's lands but to thwart his ability to attack. These countries do not enter into wars and achieve progress daily.
Therefore, the center of gravity in the world of economy is moving towards those countries. India and China have good relations and Russia regained its power that it lost after the collapse of the USSR; it tries now to form a triangle consisting of Russia, China and India.
Iran attends Shanghai forum but Egypt does not do that. There are Muslim countries in this forum, so why don’t we join it as observers. There are lots of troubles in the Middle East region. There is what is called a Shiite-Sunni conflict; the region is rich in oil and the US has enough reserves of oil but which countries need the oil of the Middle East for their development? Countries like China, Japan and India do. The Middle East has three regional powers namely, Iran, Turkey, and Egypt. Those three powers will sooner or later gather together spontaneously.
Dr. Mostafa El Feki:
The world is not just the US and Europe. There are other important countries. Before, we move on to the practical side of our relationship with China, allow me to stress the fact that a country like China benefited from the large number of its population and turned it into productive elements. In Egypt, we failed to do that and we did not focus on human resources development but we just focused on birth control.
There is also something that differentiates the Middle East from the Asian countries. The Asian mentality is totally different from the mentality of the people in the Middle East. We are rash and we work on reaching quick results. The Asians are quiet and work on long-term plans. There is an Asian proverb which says: "Wait on the other bank of the river to receive the corpses of your enemy."
I worked in India from 1979 till 1983. Everybody should know that India is a power that would play an important role in the Middle East and in combating extremist trends. The US concluded a nuclear agreement with India due to the importance of India. Egypt's relations with India during the reign of Saddat were not very great.
During that period, we never received any Indian visits. I will tell you a story that would give you an indication of how ties were. If a President sends a letter to a head of state, and it is delivered by one of the diplomats, then the receiver should open it as a matter of courtesy. But I remember when I delivered a letter to Indira Gandhi from Saddat; she just put it aside on her desk and started asking about the sons of Gamal Abdel Nasser.
Surprisingly, the office manager of Indira Gandhi called us a short time after and told us that she is ready to visit Egypt on one condition: she wanted to get the honorary doctorate from Al Azhar University because she was running for the premiership elections and this would help her to win the votes of Muslim Indians. She knew how important Al Azhar is to Muslims. There is a large community of Muslims in India that is why India asked to join the Organization of Islamic Conference but because of our stupidity we rejected the request and we objected to it.
Ali EL Hefni:
On the name of the Egyptian Ministry of Foreign Affairs I thank the Cairo Book Fair Administration for organizing a large number of seminars and workshops for discussing the Egyptian-Asian affairs and I hope that this matter will receive more attention.
Egypt's interest in Asia is not something strange but all world countries are now interested in the Asian countries; western and other governments and businessmen are interested in Asia. I worked for four years in China and I saw a large number of heads of states and senior officials from different world countries visiting China, India, Korea and Japan.
There are also visits from Arab and African states to Asian countries. There are also increasing Arab investments in Asia especially from the gulf region. There are also Asian investments in the Arab and African countries. Japan was among the first Asian countries to start cooperation with African countries. It is followed by China and Korea. They managed to do this through economic cooperation forums.
India attaches a special importance to the regional economic groupings in the African continent. Several weeks ago the Chairman of the African Union visited India, which reflects the interest of African countries to boost their ties with India.
Will the 21st century be an Asian century? I believe that this century will witness several events including the emergence of Asia (China and India) as major global economic entities; it will also witness the emergence of Asian economic groupings. There is no doubt that there is a new reality in Asia and there were preparations underway for several years to achieve this reality. This new reality will impose itself on the international economic system.
I would like to refer to the statement of "heading east" this is not a precise statement because we do not head east; we are a part of the east. Egypt has one of the oldest civilizations in the world and it interacted with the civilizations of the east. It did not head west except at a later stage. I would like to tell you that our interest in Asia is not new to us. There are 44 countries in Asia, and if we put aside small islands that we don’t know much about, we will have about 32 countries.
We have missions in 21 countries (resident and non-resident). Asian countries have 24 missions in Egypt (21 Embassies, 2 Embassies run by charge d' affair, and a national interest section). For the first time New Zealand will open a mission in Egypt and the Prime Minister of New Zealand will visit Egypt next year. So there is intensive interaction between Egypt and Asia.
I would like to say that we have joint commissions with 16 Asian countries. Last year, within the framework of heading for Asia, four joint commissions convened, there are the Egyptian Thai commission, the Egyptian Vietnamese commission, the Egyptian Pakistani commission and the Egyptian Indian commission. And we hold political consultations with 19 Asian countries.
Within the framework of the contractual arrangements, agreements and Memorandums of Understanding, there were 425 to 450 agreements signed with Asian countries. This reflects the interest of our foreign policy in Asian countries.
Last year we celebrated the 50th anniversary of establishing diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China. The former Chinese President visited Alexandria in 2000. When standing there, he said that he was standing in the same place where the missionary the Chinese Emperor sent to Egypt in 137 BC. He meant that there is a long history of diplomatic relations between the two countries and it is much longer than fifty years.
Last year witnessed the exchange of visits between Egypt and Asia. President Mubarak visited China and Kazakhstan. This showed that the Egyptian foreign policy does not concentrate on a certain region. Mubarak started his visits to Asia since he was vice president. This reflected the interest of President Saddat in this region. I visited China in October 1981.
Recently, the president of South Korea, Singapore and Pakistan visited Egypt. The Prime Minister of Pakistan and the Governor General of Australia visited Egypt, too. We have had an increase in the high level visits between Egypt and Asian countries. The Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmad Abul Gheit visited China, India, Pakistan and Iran. By the end of this year, the exports of China would exceed one trillion dollars. Still, there are 38 million people suffering from poverty in China.
I would also like to refer to the role India and China played in the field of eradication of illiteracy. Illiteracy rate in China is 5%, the population increase in 2004 was 7 million namely 0.5%. China managed to achieve self-sufficiency in the field of food stuff production. There is also increase in military expenditure. China sends 37000 students every year to study abroad. Over decades, they will represent a precious pool of experts that China can benefit from.
We have to invest in the human resources because the income they get is much more than what we spend on their development. This reminds me of the fact that there is an interest in the middle class there. The Chinese leadership bet that this class will turn China into a developed country within the coming years.
The Chinese families are realizing the importance of competition. China is also interested in scientific research. In 2004, it spent on scientific research a sum of money that is equivalent to the expenditure of France and England in this field during that year.
The ASIAN grouping comprises 10 countries; it established relations with China, Japan and South Korea. Recently the East Asian Summit was established and it includes India, Australia and New Zealand. What are these countries going to achieve in the 21st Century?
Mustafa El Feki:
The Chinese Prime Minister visited Sudan to discuss the problem of Darfur. This means that the Chinese are interested in the African issues. I invite the Ambassador of India to deliver a short address.
Ambassador of India:
I would like to refer to a negative aspect of that bright picture of the progress of the Asian countries. There are three challenges facing us. In the case of India, there are reports indicating that India's growth rate reached 9%. If this rate continued then we would face a shortage in skilled labour. Another challenge is that there is between 20-40 % of Indians living under poverty line. The third challenge is that of constructing roads and infrastructure.
The ambitions of Indians are increasing because of the media. But would the government be able to meet those ambitions. These are the internal challenges. There is a regional challenge. India is surrounded by other countries. If it could not make them join the march of progress, then it would not be able to achieve prosperity. We have to take interest in other countries as far as Laos and Myanmar and make them a part of the prosperity process.
Mostafa El Feki:
What is the use of being surrounded by backward countries? The points raised by the Ambassador of India are very important. India is a source of civilizational radiation in the region. It has also strong cinema industry that is as huge as Hollywood. Now I open the door for questions. And we will give a short answer to all questions in the end.
Ahmad Murad, Al Ghad Party:
Why couldn’t Egypt achieve what the Asian countries managed to achieve? What are our shortcomings and how can we avoid them?
Engineer Fathi Al Ghoneimy:
Will the coming century be really Asian?
Husni Abdel Rahim:
I believe that China will fall soon as the Chinese regime interferes in all aspects of life of its citizens. But we want to create free citizen and a democratic society.
Gamal Salah:
Why do we head east or west? We should balance our relations according to our interests. We should have balanced relations with both the east and the west.
Mohammad El Manfaloti:
The rich Arab countries are found in Asia. They are the oil producing countries. I admire India a lot. How can we benefit from their experience?
Amal Riyadh:
I call on the Chamber of Commerce to sell the raw materials to workshops at a low price and to market the products of those workshops. This will boost our small scale industries.
Dr. Ossama Ezz El Arab:
Why don’t we try to identify our potentials and then try to imitate the experience of the east or the west according to our interests?
Noran El Sherif:
I just want to know the benefits of the trade agreement signed between Egypt and other countries.
Mostafa El Feki:
I invite Mr. Anwar Abdel Malek to comment on this.
Anwar Abdel Malek:
It is difficult to comment on all these questions. It needs more than one seminar. However, I will relate a story that happened to me. During one of my visits to China, they took us in a visit to Great Wall of China. It was a huge wall that was built several centuries ago. One of the Chinese officials stopped me and said: this wall is very old but the Egyptian pyramid is much older. The Chinese appreciate the Egyptian civilization.
I visited India several times. I visited Taj Mahal and Fateh Pur Sikri, it is a utopian city in India. It is full of lakes and beautiful scenery and a big mosque. It was built to be the utopia in the days of the Muslim moguls. This means the Islamic civilization has strong impact in India. So we can build on such old ties and have strong current relations.
Mustafa El Feki:
Now I invite Mr. Hefny to give a last comment
Mr. Hefny:
As I said we have strong relations with China and India. I referred to our ties with China. Now I would like to say something about India. The volume of foreign trade exceeded $ 1.5 billion by the end of 2006. India is the largest Asian investor in Egypt. We have very close relations with India. We can not develop our relations with the east at the expense of our relations with the west. We should have balanced relations.
Mustafa El Feki:
To sum up there are other powers in the world than Europe and the US and modernization can be done through different approaches.
Thank you
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